.

[KickFoot]

Yes, sure. The day all 282 members decide to change the D-E-Logo .. well .. that day Doggie will have problems deciding against us..
I apologise for my irony, but for me its obvious that its not a complete democracy here at the moment. And I have got my reasons for this opinion!

I do not understand how you can say it's only that day. What else have we wanted to change? I've been here for a long time and we've got everything we've asked for on the forums, at least. Sure, things might've been slow but we got it. Please explain your reasons for this, Flubbel, because this honestly does not make much sense to me. With all due respect, of course. And don't say YOU haven't got what you wanted, say a request that WE, the community, the majority, hasn't got fullfilled.

Okay, good trial to explain the democracy here.
Now think one of your friends got the only car, and you need this car to go swimming. If he is one of three people that doesnt want to go swimming, will they go?

Yes, I was basically describing how democracy works.

That would depend on how many we are. If we're six people and three people want to go, and three people don't, then if I were the guy with the car I wouldn't take them swimming. However, if we were, say 10 people, and three people don't want to go swimming while the rest of the guys want to, I'd take them swimming. I mean, you could be a dick and tell them you won't drive them but I know I would take 'em if they wanted to. It all comes down to who has the majority.

I like your comparisons =D
Okay, lets go further. These days the owner would go to Facebook, ask people who knows the applicant or try to find as much about the applicant as possible. So, now, the owner only finds positive arguments to employ the applicant - he would employ him, wouldnt he?
Lets compare this with us, the members, which post their opinion under the application.
What went wrong if all sources, the companys owner found, were positive, but he doesnt employ the applicant? His gut feeling? Okay, but than this is not a democracy!

Applications aren't supposed to be a democracy, we're not voting for someone to become admin. We use democracy when we want to change something in this community, NOT when recruiting. You see, our backing on applications may increase or decrease the applicants' chances of being accepted or declined, yes, but in the end it's up to Doggie who becomes admin or not.

Also, thanks N3b, for mentioning me. It appreciate it.

[Flubbel]

I do not understand how you can say it's only that day. What else have we wanted to change? I've been here for a long time and we've got everything we've asked for on the forums, at least. Sure, things might've been slow but we got it. Please explain your reasons for this, Flubbel, because this honestly does not make much sense to me. With all due respect, of course. And don't say YOU haven't got what you wanted, say a request that WE, the community, the majority, hasn't got fullfilled.

You can not talk about majority and the community. The community is built out of two different kinds of players. They come from Source and 1.6, and they dont know if theres trouble at the server they dont play at. So they cant "vote" about these problems. Here, democracy doesnt work with majority in community in that way, it should work with sufficiently large numbers.
The number of at the forums active 1.6 players can be counted on 20 fingers..
And I was NOT talking about my personal wishes! And, sorry, but I will not bring up this discussion again.

Yes, I was basically describing how democracy works.

That would depend on how many we are. If we're six people and three people want to go, and three people don't, then if I were the guy with the car I wouldn't take them swimming. However, if we were, say 10 people, and three people don't want to go swimming while the rest of the guys want to, I'd take them swimming. I mean, you could be a dick and tell them you won't drive them but I know I would take 'em if they wanted to. It all comes down to who has the majority.

Of course, if the car owner is a nice guy, he wont hesitate. He would be social by driving them to swimming bath or wherever - as long as it is like "okay" for him. But if he really has no desire to go there, he wont go! Thats what Im talking about. Democracy does not work in every situation in life, so it can not be compared to any situation. Its a simplifying definition of democracy. This is okay, but it should not be used like this - as an argument. =)

Applications aren't supposed to be a democracy, we're not voting for someone to become admin. We use democracy when we want to change something in this community, NOT when recruiting. You see, our backing on applications may increase or decrease the applicants' chances of being accepted or declined, yes, but in the end it's up to Doggie who becomes admin or not.

Brings back Jackless' argument "No matter how our feedback is, Doggie decides". Its okay, but then there should not be the rumour about the importance of the feedbacks. Doggie cant know all the members like his friends in private life, but some of us know each other since years and therewith better and longer than Doggie will ever, so if this doesnt attract attention .. well .. then we are maybe on the wrong way!

So democracy is only used for unimportant questions? Well, its like choosing the presidents suit colour - not the president himself.. Sounds weird and wrong to me!

You see, our backing on applications may increase or decrease the applicants' chances of being accepted or declined, yes, but in the end it's up to Doggie who becomes admin or not.

Awesome.. It may, perhaps, possibly change some things.
How can there be only positive responses, but the applicant does not get accepted? Doggies gut feeling - okay, he hasnt got the trust in this applicant yet. He is afraid of a bad admin that destroys "our", the communitys, reputation! I can understand this argument.
But when there are only negative responses - and the applicant gets accepted? An admin the community didnt want? Oh come on! For God's sake! This is wrong! Simply wrong!

[N3bulouz]

I'm starting to feel bad about my rage, that I had before. I want to apologize for swearing.
Though my opinion is still the same, and things have got to change man!

[KickFoot]

You can not talk about majority and the community. The community is built out of two different kinds of players. They come from Source and 1.6, and they dont know if theres trouble at the server they dont play at. So they cant "vote" about these problems. Here, democracy doesnt work with majority in community in that way, it should work with sufficiently large numbers.
The number of at the forums active 1.6 players can be counted on 20 fingers..
And I was NOT talking about my personal wishes! And, sorry, but I will not bring up this discussion again.

Indeed, but when and what have you wanted to change on the server? I don't remember it being any threads at all about changes to the server, in fact. There might be 1-3 but I'm not sure.

Of course, if the car owner is a nice guy, he wont hesitate. He would be social by driving them to swimming bath or wherever - as long as it is like "okay" for him. But if he really has no desire to go there, he wont go! Thats what Im talking about. Democracy does not work in every situation in life, so it can not be compared to any situation. Its a simplifying definition of democracy. This is okay, but it should not be used like this - as an argument. =)

It's not about if he's a nice guy or not, if he's not a douchebag he would do it.

If this is your thoughts on it you should've have started an argument surrounding that in the first place, as I only used that to explain democracy. No need to dig further into it.

Brings back Jackless' argument "No matter how our feedback is, Doggie decides". Its okay, but then there should not be the rumour about the importance of the feedbacks. Doggie cant know all the members like his friends in private life, but some of us know each other since years and therewith better and longer than Doggie will ever, so if this doesnt attract attention .. well .. then we are maybe on the wrong way!

So democracy is only used for unimportant questions? Well, its like choosing the presidents suit colour - not the president himself.. Sounds weird and wrong to me!

Our feedback IS important. Honestly, I don't think your arguments make much sense. Do you honestly think that even half of the admins would have been accepted if Doggie didn't listen to his admins? It's how you got accepted, and that's how I got accepted. I'll put it like this, then, our input DOES increase/decrease the chances of the applicants' becoming accepted. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'may' last time I wrote that. Unimportant questions? Are you kidding me, Flubbel, when people want changes to the SERVER, the FORUM, etcetera, that's when we'll use democracy. Using in on applications would be plain dumb, in my opinion. "Votes" can easily be bought, np.

Awesome.. It may, perhaps, possibly change some things.
How can there be only positive responses, but the applicant does not get accepted? Doggies gut feeling - okay, he hasnt got the trust in this applicant yet. He is afraid of a bad admin that destroys "our", the communitys, reputation! I can understand this argument.
But when there are only negative responses - and the applicant gets accepted? An admin the community didnt want? Oh come on! For God's sake! This is wrong! Simply wrong!

The applicant may be declined because he does not live up to the requirements of becoming an administrator. In a real life job situtation the situtation would be exactly the same. If you were a job owner and a guy with 20+ years in the business comes to you asking for a job, and your co-worker's FRIEND who just recently started working comes in asking for work aswell, and you can only choose one of them; it's still pretty obvious you would rather choose the guy with 20+ years rather than the other guy, even if you co-workers back him up. If you're out to run a professional company/community, you do not accept everyone who you become friends with.

Here's the requirements:

To become an admin at Dream-Evil you need to be mature, patient and understanding. You need to speak fluent English and you should preferably be acquainted with how the breakfloor-maps work.

I find it fully acceptable that Doggie decline an application if he does not think the applicant live up to this. Also, let me tell you that we have overlooked these, call them guidelines or whatever, more times than we should. If sometimes the applicant is close to living up to all of those requirements, Doggie's been generous about that, and still accepted their applications.

However, I don't want to spend my time arguing over something that we have got different opinions on. That's the last big post from me in this thread, I believe.

[Doggie52]

I realize that I won't be able to answer every single point you are making, Flubbel, but I'll pick out those I feel are most important. I hope you are OK with this.

In fact, none of us knows exactly how busy he is, so none of us has a right to criticise him.

I think everybody has the right to criticise everyone, as long as the critcism is not pure invention. Even when the criticism is exxagerated.. Criticism is important in life! Criticise me, I would appreciate it.. =)

Sure, everyone has the right to criticize everyone -- I agree with that. But not the way in which Jackless criticized the community, me and our admins. That's not acceptable, not on these forums and not in real life either.

Those that purely join to become administrators and don't care about the community never become administrators anyway.

Sorry Doggie, but this is wrong. If you are right with your statement - how can there be admins, which have joined the community in 2010, and now, around two years later, they have not even 20 posts? I really cant imagine any person that cares about the community while being "active" like "this". A post per month .. or is it more like 20 posts in a week until they became admin?
"Most active forum: Accepted" --> Amazing, isnt it? This can not be called interest in the community, or am I wrong?

There is a very logical explanation to this. Dream-Evil has had other forums before, we've switched around quite a few times until we settled with our current forum solution. Those administrators you point out are old-time administrators that registered on these forums when they were quite new, and then went absent. They haven't been sighted on the servers either, so it's not like they are administering the servers but avoiding the forums, if that's what you think.
The reason these players still are administrators is precisely what I have written earlier in this thread (and in COUNTLESS others). I feel no need to repeat my reasons.

The most active subforum here is definitely not the "Accepted" forum, if that's what you're saying. Perhaps it is the most active forum for some members, for the same reasons I outlined above. Some players simply went inactive after spending some time with us -- that's perfectly fine as long as their inactivity does not ONLY extend to the forums.

Yes, players only join to become admin, thats (for me) obvious. I dont criticize this behaviour, but if new applicants dont get accepted, because "we have enough admins", which became the admin job some years ago .. thats unbelievable! This behaviour was, at least once, successful - without being active. And there are admins which became the job once and now arent active anymore, arent there?? I know its right and you know it too!

I am not an idiot, when I say "we have enough admins" I don't simply judge that by looking at the amount of administrators that are registered. I look at the real need for them, which is a complicated measurement that looks at the response I get from current players, etc. I'd appreciate if everyone could stop criticizing my judgement -- I've been doing this for 10+ years now and I think I know precisely what I am doing. This includes knowing when my own "gut feeling" is appropriate to trust.

I think Jackless has maybe exaggerated at describing the situation - anyway - often exaggerating is the best way to get the wanted feedback, or any reaction. Saying "Maybe, perhaps there are some small problems" wont bring as much reaction..

I think we can both agree the way Jackless put forward his "criticism" is completely unacceptable.

Another reason a player is an administrator is because the server was in need of admins. So, if the server is in need of admins, its not important who your are, how you behave or if you stay active after being accepted. Hmm, I guess thats not what you wanted to hear? Irony pure..

Again, I am not an idiot -- just because the server needs admins does not mean I accept anyone. Activity is not a factor I take into account when choosing my admins. It's as simple as that, and I'd appreciate it if you could stop criticizing my judgement in this case.

The server was in need of admins when you said "we have enough". Im really sorry about saying this, but if you cant be sure if the server is in need of admins or not - ask active admins.

I take into account a lot of factors when judging whether the server needs more admins, one of which, of course, is the judgement of my current admins. I am not an idiot, I know what I am doing, Flubbel. Of course I listen to my admins -- I'm somewhat annoyed that you keep lodging empty criticism at me.

And I know, youre a person that wants to control everything. But for God's sake! Youve seen that it doesnt work, so why dont you try giving some responsibillity to members you trust? Ive offered you my help several times already, if you dont trust me - thats okay, your personal view - but if you dont trust any member by not-ordinary admin work (like in the forums) you should maybe change your attitude..

Actually, considering this community has been running for some 6-10 years (depending on when you start counting) now, I'd say that it does work pretty damn well. Sure, there have been hiccups here and there, but I'd say that that rarely has been solely due to me or my judgement. I trust all of my admins to 100%, and thus I give them the responsibilities they need to carry out their duties on our servers. Forum moderation is, apart from the odd times we get a spambot coming online (which, by the way, I have made sure won't happen to the same extent again. Log out and go the register screen, look at the bottom -- there's a new CAPTCHA that is difficult, if not impossible, to solve for a bot!), completely unnecessary! I have to intervene incredibly rarely on the forums, so I don't see how adding a bunch of forum moderators will help the situation?

If you must know, I have been considering this and I still am. One day, perhaps, there might be a need for extra moderators on the forums, and I am prepared for that.

I think N3b has said enough about it

How can you help if you haven't got ANY rights, any leading participation?

So N3bulouz and me - we have got the same problem with your attitude. Its okay, your life comes first, but you see what happens when less time is combined with distrust. To list reasons isnt important for me, I know you have them, but if there are solutions for these problems - why arent these problems solved yet?

I'd love to see a list of all these "problems" that exist in our community. I can name a few, server inactivity and occasional spambot intrusions on the forums -- if you can come up with solutions to these problems then you're more than welcome to bring them forward.

As for you, N3b...

Its for N3b, I know, I will comment on it anyway, because I agree with N3b.

Trust you? I, personally, completely did, but I will not start counting neglected promises you gave me.. And exactly the same problem seems to upset N3b!
Quite a few things have happened.. Sounds nice, but if there are other problems, whats about solving them first? Like verifying the promises you gave N3b?

I have to apologize here but I'm not sure of what "promises" I have given N3b. If he can refresh my memory I'd be very happy -- the promise (which wasn't even a promise) of putting his maps on the server has been fulfilled -- are there any other promises I've missed?

And at last I don't like the way things are only determined by you most of the times, there is no democracy at all.

N3b is like my stooge today =)
Ive got the question to his statement: Should this community be a democracy? Or is it more like a president that got his advisers (which are only consulted when the president isnt sure about his opinion) ?
Either were a team, "friends" as you say, that means we decide together or were just employees, that follow rules and decisions of our boss.

That is a perfectly valid question to ask -- should this community be a democracy? Is democracy always the best way forward? I'd love to hear people's opinions on this matter, and I am definitely not closed to introducing more democracy into our community -- I argue that there are a large number of benefits to me having the last word on decisions being made. Other people might argue otherwise -- let's discuss it!

[henk]

I am for one who beleaves in facts, my opinion towards the question should be a democracy or a president is quite simple;
We askes doggie for new maps:
We have gotten them.
We asked doggie quite some time ago for RTV:
We got it.
We asked why doggie wasn’t as active:
He wrote a large brief explaining it.

Do not get me wrong I dislike the fact that sometimes things have to take so long, but doggie is (compares to other admins) quite active.

Now to react on nebulez:
How can you help if you haven't got ANY rights, any leading participation.

I don’t get the question, we have admin rights just not on the forum but what would the difference be, we could delete topics etc, but that rarely is needed.
The only handy thing would be when people get out of control that we can just delete the topic but when you ask someone to edit it they normally do.

I still think it’s too bad you have this feeling Neb and still think you’re really a good chap but Doggie isn’t (The only one) to blame for this all…

Even if Ewil apple, Kickfoot, or nickpc would have gotten these powers it wouldn’t have made a large difference in my opinion…

[GloriousNoR]

Inactivity isn't really such a big deal as long as the servers (etc) isnt full of bugs, lagg, etc. Which they'r not.

Playing on these servers and being in this community isnt a right you have, It's a privilegie you have gotten, if you have been given this privilegie, you participate at your own discretion and leave on your own discretion.

And as Doggie is the primary owner of the domain and the servers, he should also make the decisions, of course he need to listen to the community, but the economic responsibillity lies with him, and therefore, he must make the decisions. If Doggie wants to have a life outside of this community, so what? He isnt obliged to be online nor active on this community as far as I know.

This post isn't meant to be aggressive to anyone, It displays my views and my views only.

[Flubbel]

Indeed, but when and what have you wanted to change on the server? I don't remember it being any threads at all about changes to the server, in fact. There might be 1-3 but I'm not sure.

I wasnt talking about threads, because there neednt be threads for some decissions. And, as I said, I will not bring up the discussion again. I apologise for bringing arguments I wont proof, but it would mess everything up here.

It's not about if he's a nice guy or not, if he's not a douchebag he would do it.
If this is your thoughts on it you should've have started an argument surrounding that in the first place, as I only used that to explain democracy. No need to dig further into it.

Thats your personal view on the situation, and I respect and understand it, so I wont go on with discussing the comparison.

Anyway, you have used the comparison to make your argument stronger. You said the community is like this story, a democracy, so, the story is a part of your argumentation, isnt it? But its trivial, so we can stop this discussion, too.

Unimportant questions? Are you kidding me, Flubbel, when people want changes to the SERVER, the FORUM, etcetera, that's when we'll use democracy.

So the administrators arent part of the server? I hope they are..?
Anyway, caused on failed democracy in the past, I will keep my opinion.
Votes can be bought? ... Like in real politics, but .. argh! I didnt know Obama bought his votes! o_O Jokes aside, bought votes? Speak of the devil and the devil shows up! This is very unlikely in my opinion.. Because no admin wants to have another, bad, his powers abusing admin besides him playing at the server!

If you're out to run a professional company/community, you do not accept everyone who you become friends with.

Right, but do you employ the third, by your workers critisiced guy then? Of course you cant be sure the applicant is as experienced as he says..


I think your definitely right about not having a discussion with two, completely different opinions!

Sure, everyone has the right to criticize everyone -- I agree with that. But not the way in which Jackless criticized the community, me and our admins. That's not acceptable, not on these forums and not in real life either.

I think he just said how his feelings of the situation are, no matter if they are right or wrong.
But I agree that the way he criticised you was too harsh. He could have done this in another, more mature way.

[...]The reason these players still are administrators is precisely what I have written earlier in this thread (and in COUNTLESS others). I feel no need to repeat my reasons.

It just approves what I said: There are admins, which dont care about the community - and became admins anway.

I'd appreciate if everyone could stop criticizing my judgement -- I've been doing this for 10+ years now and I think I know precisely what I am doing. This includes knowing when my own "gut feeling" is appropriate to trust.

Im sorry about criticising your judgement once more, but you dont play at the servers. You may have some players in your friendslist or know them somehow. You may also have logical reasons for saying there are "enough admins", but if I, as a person that played a lot for a long time at the server, felt like there arent enough admins - how can I be wrong as the "more active" player? You maybe havent get negative responses from players, because I was the admin, that used his school- / free- /...time to join the server several times a day only to ban cheaters, slap campers, do this admin stuff, do that admin stuff.. Ive done this, because I thought you will accept the next applicant, but you actually didnt. So it was my fault that you didnt get the right view on the situation - Im sorry about it and it wont happen again. *Irony off*. I simply wanted you to know that you were wrong that time. You got the experience (10 years - congratulation! =) ) and you got everything that is needed to do a great job, but even the best manager, owner, etc. in the world needs help. Because humans are humans - not God! (or Chuck Norris - he became 72 yesterday =) ) We, the admins, (or I can of course only speak for myself) would say/write if we have enough admins at the server. Currently, I think - without having played that much - that we have enough - attributable to few players, but as I said Im not able to say if its true or not.

First, sorry, but: 100% trust was seen in the past:
-Cheaters didnt get banned, because you didnt believe in your admins. And dont try telling me you believed in your admins, but you tried to be fair! You could have also first banned that guy before going through the records, etc. ! That would have shown trust!!
-Records had to be done.
-..

If you believe 100% in me (just as an example), why dont you give me more rights?

I wasnt only talking about co-head-admins for the forums. Admins with more powers could make the community more popular. They could organize fightnights, they could solve problems with the server, they could try new mods, they could try what happens if we use new maps, they could ...

My post is not meant to insult or blame anyone. I just commented on what has been said to me. And I guess big parts dont have to be answered.
Keep it short - my philosophy - gone! =0 I promise Ill try next time! =p

As soon as Im in the right mood combined with enough time, I will bring up some possible solutions for problems the community currently has. And yes, there are problems. And problems are, as we know, only "yet not founded solutions" =)

[Doggie52]

[...]The reason these players still are administrators is precisely what I have written earlier in this thread (and in COUNTLESS others). I feel no need to repeat my reasons.

It just approves what I said: There are admins, which dont care about the community - and became admins anway.

They did care about the community then, and they still do. They simply are not active on neither the forums nor the servers right now. It's not like they are on the servers but ignoring the forums, Flubbel! If that is the case, then I shall speak to them (and I have done so on earlier occasions).

I'd appreciate if everyone could stop criticizing my judgement -- I've been doing this for 10+ years now and I think I know precisely what I am doing. This includes knowing when my own "gut feeling" is appropriate to trust.

Im sorry about criticising your judgement once more, but you dont play at the servers. You may have some players in your friendslist or know them somehow. You may also have logical reasons for saying there are "enough admins", but if I, as a person that played a lot for a long time at the server, felt like there arent enough admins - how can I be wrong as the "more active" player?

If that is the way you have felt, Flubbel, then I absolutely listen to you and your judgement. In the past, when I have declined admins, due to there being "too many", it has always been based on what I hear from my admins -- most of the times you do indeed know more than regular players!

First, sorry, but: 100% trust was seen in the past:
-Cheaters didnt get banned, because you didnt believe in your admins. And dont try telling me you believed in your admins, but you tried to be fair! You could have also first banned that guy before going through the records, etc. ! That would have shown trust!!
-Records had to be done.
-..

If you're talking about the case with SuN, that was somewhat special. To me, absolute proof is incredibly important. I can safely say that I have never banned a player on my servers without absolute proof that he/she was hacking (unless of course the ban was for other reasons). That is something I hold very dear. In the case with SuN, the only proof that ever emerged was a suspicious video of what looked like aimbot. Nothing else ever came up that was solid or strong.

Look what resulted? I did actually ban him, solely based on that video. In normal cases, I wouldn't have done so -- but here I took into account the opinions of my admins and of the community as a whole and decided that it would be best to ban him altogether. Don't you say that was a good decision after all?

If you believe 100% in me (just as an example), why dont you give me more rights?

But Flubbel! I've said this a million times -- it's because you don't need it! Sure, I could go ahead and give all my admins full RCON powers to the servers and I'm 100% nothing would happen that would damage the servers. BUT, it's completely unnecessary!! I, myself, rarely even use RCON at all. The commands I've given to you admins are the commands I use 99.5% of the time myself! If I don't need any more commands, neither do you !

I wasnt only talking about co-head-admins for the forums. Admins with more powers could make the community more popular. They could organize fightnights, they could solve problems with the server, they could try new mods, they could try what happens if we use new maps, they could ...

This is one idea I have been considering a lot, the past time. The reason this hasn't happened yet is simply because I am afraid I will scare people away by suddenly giving them more responsibility.

My post is not meant to insult or blame anyone. I just commented on what has been said to me. And I guess big parts dont have to be answered.
Keep it short - my philosophy - gone! =0 I promise Ill try next time! =p

Hey, your post absolutely does not insult anyone! You put forward your opinions and your criticism in a clear, concise and nice way, Flubbel! I appreciate that a lot, thank you!

[fruitbowl 1]

If you're talking about the case with SuN, that was somewhat special. To me, absolute proof is incredibly important. I can safely say that I have never banned a player on my servers without absolute proof that he/she was hacking (unless of course the ban was for other reasons). That is something I hold very dear. In the case with SuN, the only proof that ever emerged was a suspicious video of what looked like aimbot. Nothing else ever came up that was solid or strong.

Look what resulted? I did actually ban him, solely based on that video. In normal cases, I wouldn't have done so -- but here I took into account the opinions of my admins and of the community as a whole and decided that it would be best to ban him altogether. Don't you say that was a good decision after all?

Speaking about suN, yes it was a good decision to ban him although what I (and probably more 1.6 admins) don't understand is why you unbanned him later on without telling us? After all the work both admins and regular 1.6 players laid down on getting this guy banned, not only I am disappointed and more or less pissed off about it as well as wondering why you did it without notifying us. I fully understand it's your call but as I said, admins and players spent a lot of time spectating and recording him and therefore I think an explanation is required. If you trust us 100% why didn't you tell us about it? It was a stab in the back if you ask me and I would certainly not be this upset if you just had said it or brought it up for discussion.

This is my point of view so I hope more admins and players from 1.6 can fill in.


I have a couple of things that could fit in to the "promises" mentioned earlier. The things are the /me and /hp commands which has been disabled for some time now. I have brought this up earlier and there's no hurry because they aren't vital, I just hope you can fix them when you have time!

[Doggie52]

Speaking about suN, yes it was a good decision to ban him although what I (and probably more 1.6 admins) don't understand is why you unbanned him later on without telling us? After all the work both admins and regular 1.6 players laid down on getting this guy banned, not only I am disappointed and more or less pissed off about it as well as wondering why you did it without notifying us. I fully understand it's your call but as I said, admins and players spent a lot of time spectating and recording him and therefore I think an explanation is required. If you trust us 100% why didn't you tell us about it? It was a stab in the back if you ask me and I would certainly not be this upset if you just had said it or brought it up for discussion.

Unbanning him like that is something I regret having done. I really do. The reason why I did so was simply because I had not realized how much effort you admins and members had put in. I had received sporadic reports about his behavior, and I simply did not have the proof I needed to be fully certain. I specifically asked suN to stay low and to not cause attention -- which he obviously did anyway.

I was weak, and I let my lack of proof guide me too strongly. I should have let you all know precisely what I did, and I still regret not doing so.

I have a couple of things that could fit in to the "promises" mentioned earlier. The things are the /me and /hp commands which has been disabled for some time now. I have brought this up earlier and there's no hurry because they aren't vital, I just hope you can fix them when you have time!

I think I tried fixing that before, but something got in the way. I apologize for not having gotten to it earlier. It's fixed now , but I'm not sure if it will stay fixed after a server map change or restart. Let me know if it works for you!

[fruitbowl 1]

Thanks for the explanation and fixing the commands, they are working perfectly fine!

[EsketoN]

I think this is a very easy problem to solve (I'm only talking about the 1.6 problems) ^^
How did it become like this?
Easy question. When Doggie unbanned SuN many admins started to stop play on rats cause no one wants to play with/against a cheater, and then more cheaters started to play cause there were no admins on the server and then all the "standard players" stopped to play.
What Doggie has to do:
1. Ban SuN (check)
2. You have to ensure us that you are not going to do a "SuN-thing" again. (half check)
What admins has to do:

1. Start help/play on the server more. Even if you can't play 4 hours a day anymore, I still think you can just go in to the spectators and check the server 5 minutes a day 10 times a day for cheaters.
2. Try to find those admins/players that stopped to play on the server and say that we need help to make D-E as it once were, (you can also tell them that suN is banned).
3. Tell all your friends/steam friends that they should try to play on D-Es rats server cause its a really fun server.

What you "standard players" should do.
1. Tell all your friends/steam friends that they should try to play on D-Es rats server cause its a really fun server.

[fruitbowl 1]

Haven't played CS for a while, have been busy pwning in BF3 (I still think it sucks compared to BF2 but yeah, I play it still) but today I joined to check on the server but it was empty except for a player who I played against for a couple of rounds before he left. It's a sad thing to see because not long ago it was often full, so do as esketon suggested and hopefully the server will be back on track soon.

[seke3]

esketon, I found almost every steam-friend i have on the d-e servers, but many people has quited playing cs and css. i will try to encourage them to check the servers a little now and then.